Do you want to know how to spark joy and personal fulfillment marketing your book?
Listen as Estie Rand shares her marketing savvy to help point your book promotion in the right direction to accelerate success.
Do you want to know how to spark joy and personal fulfillment marketing your book?
Listen as Estie Rand shares her marketing savvy to help point your book promotion in the right direction to accelerate success.
In this week's powerful episode "How to Spark Joy and Personal Fulfillment Marketing Your Book" you will discover...
Susan Friedmann: Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Estie Rand, an award-winning business consultant, marketing strategist, acclaimed international speaker, and founder of Strand Consulting. Estie's mission is to empower small business owners with clarity and strategy so that they can make all their big business dreams come true and live the life they want. She believes that anyone can build a professional and profitable business doing what they love, earn buckets of money, and still have time for their life and family. Estie, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show, and thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
Estie Rand: Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
Susan Friedmann: Estie, I was reading all about you, as I love to do before I interview my guests, and I saw that one of your clients said that you have this magical ability to look through entrepreneurial eyes and see the big vision for them. I would love to hear more about that. How do you do that?
Estie Rand: It might be a little bit because of my background in coaching. I don't talk about it a lot, but I am a certified professional coach for over 12 years. I think part of that training taught me how to see the other person's goals through their eyes. When I work with a business owner, it's not about my agenda. It's not about what I want for them, it's about what they want for them. And so, getting into their head and then it's seeing their vision, but then it's almost expanding, it's like I layer on it. It's like I see their vision, but I see their biggest dream vision. I push people. It's like, "Okay, but if everything would work out, magic could happen, what would you really want?" And I ask questions that sometimes people only dare to dream about or think about at three in the morning when they wake up. And that's the vision that we go for, because why not?
Susan Friedmann: Oh, absolutely. Why not? But I know having had so many of those dreams, and then you sort of second guess yourself and was like, "Oh no, that's too big" or "That really isn't possible." How do you respond to that?
Estie Rand: There is no such thing as impossible. You can climb any ladder, just not 14 rungs at a time. The way I work and what I do in all my business endeavors, strategy is just a plan to reach a goal. There is no goal too big. There might be a goal that's too big to reach tomorrow, next month, this year. There's a great quote from Tony Robbins that I have hanging on my wall. And he says that, "Most people overestimate what they can do in a year, but underestimate what they can do in ten." There's nothing too big.
Susan Friedmann: Isn't that the truth?
Estie Rand: It's just a matter of setting the path and allowing it to unfold and take the time to do it. If you need it tomorrow, you're right. That might be too big of a dream to have tomorrow. Right? You try to climb a ladder 14 rungs at a time, you might end up with a torn muscle, at least one.
Susan Friedmann: Yeah, because we live in this instant society, and so we do want it now. So the idea of trying to climb all those 14 rungs at any one time, yeah, I don't think we realize that that's what we've got to do, but we do want it now. It's what-
Estie Rand: We want it now, and there's a price to pay for that. And I'm big on analogies. I'm very visual, and so it helps me understand concepts. Another great way to understand it is microwave, right? You can microwave your food. You will have it faster, but microwaves don't actually heat up the food. They heat up the water molecules in the food. That's why pizza comes out rubbery, that's why things get dried out in the microwave. Microwave heats up the water molecules in the food. So microwave hack is to put like a little cup of water or sprinkle some water on the plate when you're heating something up, and that helps retain its moisture. That's why you use it in gravy. Longer story. But there's a price to pay to do something quickly. And by the way, the food cools off a lot faster, too. When you do push something fast in this instant society, you can get it. It's not the same quality. It doesn't last as long as when you do it the long way.
Susan Friedmann: I love that. I love the hack, too. I'm going to try that.
Estie Rand: It really works. I invented it when I used to warm up pizza in the microwave a lot, because lack of patience. It would just always come out rubbery and the edges would be dried out, and then I don't remember. I learned this at some point. I used it as an example for ... I used to do like dating coaching and relations. I've done a lot of different careers in my lifetime. But a lot as a relationship example, right? Microwave relationships, we want it to be super connected, super-fast. See where it is. It's true in anything.
Susan Friedmann: It's interesting that so many entrepreneurs have done exactly that. There is so many things that we've done in our lives. And it's like I think that just gives us the richness to be able to talk to anyone, that just, yeah. It's like we've been there, we've done that, we've tried it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't work, so.
Estie Rand: More often it didn't work.
Susan Friedmann: That's why we tried something else, yeah.
Estie Rand: That's why we tried something else, and that's what makes us who we are. I like to say, "The only way to your story is through your story." And considering that we talk about marketing for books and publishing might be an apropos quote, right? You only get to your story by living through it. So when you're in it, you're like, "Oh." But you know what? We're living our own book. Is it a good read? Not, is it a good ending. Is it a good book?
Susan Friedmann: I love that. Oh my goodness, what gems. I didn't even realize. You mentioned the word marketing, and this is a great segue Estie, because I saw on your website, you've got this in big, bold letters, "Never waste money on marketing again." And I was like, whoa, that sort of makes you, well, it made me like, "Oh, what does she mean by that?" Let's talk about that. What do you mean by that?
Estie Rand: Sure. It's actually the tagline for our main program, which is the marketing map where you build a marketing strategy for your business. What it means is not you never spend money on marketing again, right, because you may spend money, you may not. My specialty is organic strategy where you can earn instead of spending or earn a lot more than you spend. What it means is two things. One, you either earn or you learn. Because most people, what they're doing is they're throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks. "Oh, let me try this. Let me try this. Estie, should I do a form or a blog on my site?" How about none. Leap. But I think isn't it a good thing to ...
There's such a lack of information and understanding on what marketing is in today's world. It used to be simpler, right? You used to have basically four options for what you'd call your marketing mix, right? You'd have print, and radio, television, and outdoor. That was it.
Susan Friedmann: Advertising.
Estie Rand: That was it. And now the internet, just starting with basic web, right, and then you have website and kinds of websites, and all the different things that go on your website. And then you have SEO, and all the things that go with the SEO and all the search stuff. And then you have social media, and then you have all the different social media platforms, and within them, you have your own pages, and then you have paid ads, and then you have influencer marketing, and then you have the DM strategies. And, oh my gosh. And then you've got experts in every single tactic coming at you and selling you like, "I'm going to generate leads for you." And then what?
Susan Friedmann: I'm exhausted just listening to it.
Estie Rand: There's so much, and I just barely scratched the surface, right? Because now you have mail, and you have direct mail, and you have snail mail, and you have email, and you have all different kinds of email marketing and email mart. This is my world. Right? I live and I breathe this, and there's so, so much, and there's so much confusion. And everyone is going to tell you something different, because what works for each person is different, and no one ever takes a minute to think that piece, right? Everyone's going to tell you something different. Not because they're all right or all wrong. They're all right for them. And how do you know if that's right for you?
And so people just stand there, throw spaghetti at the wall, and they hope something sticks, and they hope it works. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't. But even when it does, they don't know why, and when it doesn't, they also don't know why. You never waste money on marketing again, because when you understand how the whole thing works, now you don't waste. So even if you do something that doesn't earn as much as you wanted, you know why plus the culmination of my program, what I teach, is a promotional strategy calculator, where basically before you ever invest any money in any marketing endeavor, whether it's a hire, or to place an ad, or anything, you run through a five step process where you assess is it going to earn you money? How much is it likely to earn you?
And I've done this process with people where they go through it. They're like, "Oh, so if I, let's say, do this Instagram thing, it's going to cost me this much, and this much time, and this much, because I have to hire this person to make this thing. And in the end, based on everything I've learned, I'm going to maybe earn a few hundred dollars and it's going to cost me a few thousand. So maybe I don't want to do this." I'm like, "Right. Maybe not." But I've had people sit and we go through it. They're like, "Oh, wait. If I do this strategy, every time I do this, it costs me a few hundred dollars, but I earn a few thousand." Right. So you would want to do more of that.
So now we're strategic. Now we've built a map. We understand the different modes of transportation. We know where we are. We know where we're going. We get in the car and drive. Are there speed bumps? Yes. Are there road closures? Yes. Could you run out of gas? Yes. All of that can happen, but you're not wasting. You're on the path to where you want to go. You don't get lost. Right? You make a mistake, your GPS goes "Recalculating."
Susan Friedmann: I love it. I absolutely love it. And it's so interesting, because I work with many of my non-fiction authors on creating a roadmap in terms of bringing their book to market and what they can do with it, because it's not about selling books. It's about that message. It's about the value. Yes, and I hear you because funnily enough, I use that same analogy, throwing spaghetti against the wall. Some of it might stick. Some of it might not, but you just don't know.
Estie Rand: You don't know.
Susan Friedmann: So, it's beautiful. You and I talked about doing a little piece for the Book Marketing Mentors podcast membership site. I just thought, "Well, maybe I could twist your arm and we could do something on that promotional assessment, just a touch."
Estie Rand: You got it.
Susan Friedmann: So, think about that. Something special for those members. Thank you.
Let's delve deeper into this whole aspect of marketing, because I would say marketing is an inexact science. One day it'll work, A plus B equals C, then it'll equal D, E, F, G. Do you feel that way at all about it?
Estie Rand: No.
Susan Friedmann: No?
Estie Rand: No. It's an art and a science. So yes, things shift and change. It's not scientific in terms of like radioactive isotopes, right, where they decay at a certain rate and it doesn't change, but it is scientific in the fact that there are certain foundational principles that don't ever change. And you just mentioned one of them, which is value. Value proposition doesn't change. Right? Understanding that all of businesses in exchange of value for value and all of marketing is creating and communicating that value to your target customer to convince them to buy, that doesn't change. The process by which people go from interest to purchase, that process doesn't change. All right. We can talk more about that when we talk about the funnel that takes people to membership. Sorry. Talk about it in your membership for your members. I'll get there eventually. For your members. The promotional strategy assessment takes you through a five step process, but those things don't change. The tools might change.
One of the things that I have been teaching for over five years is a, I call it social media magic, right? It's organic marketing strategy for social media and basically how to master any platform on social media, previous present, or future. So when TikTok came out, okay, it's been around for a couple of years, but I really only fell into it a few months ago. I use my own strategies, right, because I better drink my own water and practice what I preach. We got a thousand views on our first post and over 500 likes. On our first post on a brand new platform, because the platforms are new, but the strategies don't change. So there's the science and the art. The art is how you interact with each element, with each technology, right? And the videos, let's say, that we made for a TikTok, because it's a video based platform, it's not the same stuff I do on LinkedIn. Not at all. But the foundation doesn't change.
And so in marketing, there are patterns. There are frameworks. There are strategies. There are things that don't change. And then the applications can change. You get dressed, you wear clothes, different clothes on a different day for different events or different things you're going to do. When I've got all my kids around, I'm not wearing the same thing that I'm wearing when I'm speaking on stage in London. I'm not going to. That's a bad idea. A, because the stuff I wear on stage is too nice that I don't want kids to get dirty, and B, I don't want to wear whatever I would just wear at home to be comfortable when I'm presenting. And so the applications change, but there is a way to know that A plus B always gets you C, and then if it starts to shift or starts to change, you look at it, and you say, "Oh, let me go back to what was foundational, and let me see what's changed in application."
I'll give a concrete example, right? Because this is a lot of theory. I am very big on LinkedIn. I actually have a LinkedIn training program even. LinkedIn saved me and my business like four years ago when I was really in a low place. So, I love it. I teach it. It's one of my favorite toys. LinkedIn changes over time, but the foundation of what LinkedIn is, it's a social media platform. It's essentially a business networking platform. Right?
Every social media platform is like a party. Your website, that's your house, your store, people come to you. Social media, these are social mediums, right? The media is just plural of mediums, right? It's a social medium, 24/7, where people around the world are gathered, and they're talking, and they're meeting, and they're greeting, and they're looking at things, and they're doing things. And each part is a different flavor, right? Facebook's like a reunion. Instagram's like a coffee shop. We can talk more about this. But LinkedIn's a networking event. I love networking events.
So recently in our group chat, one of our program participants posted something like, "Hey guys, has anyone else noticed that engagement on LinkedIn is down recently?" We answered him, "Yeah, actually summer's always a slow time." That's a pattern. If you've been on the platform long enough, you know. Summer, and specifically end of summer, you've got a lot of parents, it's kids back to school time. People like get a little low bandwidth on social media, and summer in general is a little lower specifically on LinkedIn because it's more business oriented. People are doing a little more vacation-y stuff. That's a pattern.
The algorithm can change, but how a social media algorithm works is also fairly constant. The algorithm's a party manager. The same way you would go to a party and there's a host, and the host wants people to meet and greet, and everyone should behave nicely. That's all a social media algorithm is in essence. And so if the algorithm is punishing you, as you see so many people on social media say, no, it's not. You did something to irritate it. Okay? No one's punishing you just for fun. The algorithm wants people to be at this party, to stay at this party, to hang out at this party, and to be there as long as possible, as often as possible. If you work with the host, they work with you, with your content. If your engagement encourages people to stick around longer and to engage more, the host will introduce you to more people. They will say, "Hey, Estie, meet this guy, meet this woman. Then this person. Hey everyone, have you seen Estie? Yeah, because when you look at her stuff, you like this party more, so look at more of her stuff." And if the host is not doing that, get better stuff.
Sorry. That was a long rant.
Susan Friedmann: But it was wonderful. I was like, "Oh my goodness." What a-
Estie Rand: I have to come up for air at some point.
Susan Friedmann: Yes, yes. Take a breath. One of the things that I really, really loved what you just said was to turn this in and put it in a context that I have never heard before, this whole idea of the platforms, and what they represent, and just how to approach it. I mean, it's given me a whole new vision of working on these platforms and even thinking about liking them, because I am not a social media person. I just do not like social media, but listening to you, I could really get excited about it.
Estie Rand: I'll take it a little further. Choose your party. Right? People look at social media and they're like, "Ah, it's just this big burden to have to do this thing for my business." No, no, no, no. They're just a bunch of parties. You want to go, go. You don't want to go, don't go. If all of your clients are at that party and you don't even have a sign hanging on the wall about your business, then those people don't think that you really in their world.
In our program, we differentiate between presence and promotion. There's a difference between social media presence and social media promotion. Having a presence on a social media platform where you have a profile and there's stuff about you there, you don't update it very often, but there's just stuff there, that's a presence. That's foundational for most business owners if their target customer and clients are hanging out on that platform. But in terms of promotion, that's engagement. That's you hanging out at the party. Don't hang out at a party you don't like. Hang out a party that you do like. And hang out.
This is why so many people, they look at social media and they're like, "Oh, I see that person posted that they're putting this thing on sale." And everyone's like, "Oh, yay, sale, sale." So they copy it. They're like, "Oh, I'm putting my thing on sale." Crickets. They're like, "I don't understand. I just did what she did." No, you didn't. What she did was hanging at this party, talking to hundreds of people for the last five years, and then she's like, "Hey guys, I'm putting some on sale." What you did is you walked in and there's a bunch of people talking in a group for the last five years, and you just walked in as a total stranger and interrupted and say, "Hey, I know you're all talking. I have a sale." Everyone's like, "Who the eff are you? We don't know you and we don't care."
Susan Friedmann: Very interesting. And you're right. It's picking the right platform. Now, what goes through my mind, and I've heard it many times too, is that social media is a time suck. I mean, how much time do you devote to it-
Estie Rand: Fantastic question.
Susan Friedmann: ... that you can get the results that you would like to get from them?
Estie Rand: It's a great question. And it really depends on your goal, right? And that's what we talked about the roadmap to begin with. What do you want out of the social media? So if what you want is clients, then how much time do you need to give the platform really depends on how many of your clients are there. How close are you already to them? How much do you enjoy it? And by the way, if you hate it, it's not going to do very much for you. It's not worth it at all.
Susan Friedmann: I understand that.
Estie Rand: It's not worth it. There's so many other ways to get clients. I have a guide, and maybe this'll be one of those things that you asked me if I could give something to your members in your membership, I have a guide, 167 promotional strategies to get your audience's attention. We are not lacking for ways to get in front of people. Social media is not a requirement. If you don't like it and you don't enjoy it, this is not likely worth your time. The people who are the biggest influence, I have some clients who have hundreds of thousands of followers on social media, they spend upwards of five hours a day on the platform, but they love it. It works for them. They don't look at it as a time suck. This is their fun. These are their friends. They're hanging out at a party, right?
If you say to me, "Oh my gosh, I hate networking, but I need clients. Okay, fine. I'll go to the networking event. How long do I have to be there to meet people?" That's not going to go well. You could walk in, and in the first five minutes meet an ideal client. You can be there for two hours sulking in the corner and meet nobody. There is no official time.
If someone wants to go, my advice would be, I'm very practical. Yeah? It's all wants to try social media for lead generation, first, explore the different platforms. Just hang out on them a little bit. See which one strikes you. I ended up landing on TikTok. Everyone was going to Clubhouse. This is about six months ago. Over this past year, everyone's going to Clubhouse in my world. Right? All of the business consultants, and the coaches, and the marketers, they're all going to Clubhouse. I downloaded the app and I tried opening it once, and I'm like, "Ah, it's just not for me." It felt heavy. It felt not exciting. And then I met someone they're like, "Well, what about TikTok?" I'm like, "Aw, TikTok's for like teeny boppers." They're like, "No, really not." So I was like, "Okay, don't let me check it out." And I'm like, "I like this platform. This thing is so cute." I started studying it, and I think TikTok has the smartest algorithm of every platform ever made. It's different conversation. And I was like, "I like this place. I like what goes on here." I started studying it, and I'm like, "Okay, you know what? We're going to give this a go. I like it here."
Just go around, try things. And if any of the platforms appeal to you, and you're like, "You know what? I like it here." Then set a time limit for yourself. It could be three hours a week. It could be 15 minutes a day. It could be an hour, three days a week. I don't care. You decide on your time limit first, then go and spend that much time there and see what you can get from it. You'll see once you're inside, do I like it? Do I want to spend more time here? Am I generating business? Is this the kind of place that I think I can generate business? Is this something worth my time and energy? Because if not, I can put it somewhere else.
Susan Friedmann: You make a really good point about enjoying the platform that you interact in. It's funny, because I had the same reaction about Clubhouse. Somebody said to me, "Oh, you got to be on Clubhouse, and you can talk about your book marketing on there, and you can start your own discussions and everything. "I was just like-"
Estie Rand: Yeah, and all the podcasters were on Clubhouse. They're like, "Podcasting and Clubhouse." And I'm like, "I don't like it."
Susan Friedmann: Yeah.
Estie Rand: I'm not doing it.
Susan Friedmann: And it's funny. You should say TikTok, because I was just on a summit where somebody talked, was a specialist in TikTok, and she talked about it being such a great place to generate leads and to potentially get business. And I was like, my thinking was like yours. It was like, this is a teeny bopper.
Estie Rand: Yeah. It's very fascinating platform. I have a lot to say on that. I've been studying it for the last, let's see, where are we? August? That's six months.
Susan Friedmann: Interesting.
Estie Rand: Very, very [crosstalk 00:23:00].
Susan Friedmann: I will check it out.
Estie Rand: Again, it has its own strategy, but there are five foundational steps to maximizing any social media platform for success organically. Again, think of it like going to a party. So number one, before you go, you're going to get dressed. Right? Before you go to a party, you're going to dress appropriately for that party. Getting dressed is your profile, what it looks like, what people see when they first see you. Okay? And every platform has different protocols.
Then you're going to go to the party. You're going to meet people. You're going to introduce yourself. And again, every platform has different ways, right? LinkedIn has connections, and Instagram has followers, and Facebook has friends, and every single platform has a different way that people connect. So you're going to learn the connection strategies, you're going to meet and greet.
Then you're going to engage in conversations. You're going to talk to people, right? So that's in the chats. That's in following. That's in commenting. There's conversations. You start conversations when you post, and you engage in existing conversations when you comment to other people's posts. Each platform has their nuances of how the conversations work, the same way conversations flow different at a networking event than at a wedding, than at a little kid's birthday party, than at a slumber party, than at a luncheon. They're different. All right. So you're going to figure out how to have conversations.
And then, really there's four steps. The first step is picking your platform. My bad. Five steps, one, pick your platform, get dressed appropriately, meet people, engage in conversation, and then the fifth one is that you're going to take it outside. People don't close business at the birthday party. Very atypically, right? They meet, they greet, and then they make up to follow up. Social media's something that you leverage for the most part to meet and greet people, make connections, gain legitimacy, gain visibility, and then take it outside. Take the conversation to the side, and that's the DMs, and the chat, and the private messages, and how you find people and then engage with them off the platform. Now you can start to use social media for business.
Susan Friedmann: Well, you are getting me so excited about all of this. It's like, oh my goodness. I didn't think we'd go this way, but hey, you'd turn the conversation around, and what juicy stuff. Estie, let our listeners know how they can find out more, get in touch with you.
Estie Rand: Sure. The best thing, I always like to give presents, because why not? And if you go to EstieRand.com/freegift, E-S-T-I-E-R-A-N-D .com/freegift. Don't forget the E in Estie. So E-S-T-I-E-R-A-N-D .com/freegift. At the moment, there's a three-day marketing success challenge there. It is free. It will get a paywall at some point in the near future. So when that happens, there'll be something else at the free gift. So whenever you hear this episode, there is a free gift hanging out for you at EstieRand.com/freegift. But at the time of this recording, it's a 3-Day Marketing Success Challenge, the clarity and confidence to market yourself successfully. I take you through in just 15 minutes a day, over three days, some really foundational pieces with actionable homework. It's built as a mini paid program. We like to give them away free sometimes to special people.
Susan Friedmann: How wonderful. Thank you. And we are going to [inaudible 00:25:57] this conversation for our podcast members. We'll save something juicy for them, as well. I hate to bring this to an end, but if you were to leave our listeners with a golden nugget, what would that be, Estie?
Estie Rand: It would be my favorite poem of all time. I don't know who the author is. I found it in a Chicken Soup book over 20 years ago, and it goes like this. A small boy looked at a star and began to weep. And the star said, "Boy, why are you weeping?" And the boy said, "Because you are so far, I will never be able to reach you." And the star said, "Boy, if I were not already in your heart, you wouldn't be able to see me."
Susan Friedmann: Oh my goodness.
Estie Rand: You can reach any goal and any dream you want. If you can dream it, you can live it. There are answers, and there are pathways, and there are people who can help you, and there's information out there. You can get it and you can take one step closer to your goal every day, and sometimes a step closer to your goal is a step backwards, and then another step forward, and, that's fine because your eyes are always ahead. And if you can see it, it's already in your heart. It's already yours. It's just a matter of time.
Susan Friedmann: Wow. I should have had a Kleenex box handy. That was so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom. And listeners, this was just so juicy. You have got to listen to this several times again. I know I am because to capture all the great information that Estie was kind enough to share with us. Thank you.
And of course, thank you all for taking time out of your precious day to listen to this interview, and I sincerely hope that it sparked some ideas you can use to sell more books. Here's wishing you much book marketing success.