Do you want to know how to best use JV partners for your promotions? Listen as affiliate manager, Brady Patterson shares insider secrets to help you navigate the world of joint ventures.
In this week's powerful episode "How to Best Use JV Partners for Your Promotions" you will discover...
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Jam-packed with smart, easy, and simple ideas, Book Marketing Mentors features experts who share proven techniques to add power and zest to supercharge your book marketing plan. Hosted by Susan Friedmann, CSP, international bestselling author, and founder of Aviva Publishing, this exciting podcast aims to rev up your marketing efforts with fewer struggles, and more success. Start listening today and discover how to get noticed in a crowded marketplace.
Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters. Every week, I introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books.
Today, my special guest is a multiple best-selling author, survival trainer marketer, and international rodeo champion. Brady Patterson spent years honing his skills as an affiliate manager and has supported multiple companies to scale beyond seven figures using joint ventures, including growing the Entrepreneurs International Network from 10,000 members in four cities to over 150,000 members in 31 cities and five countries.
Currently, he's the director of strategic partnerships of the number one joint venture network for coaches and consultants, where he teaches entrepreneurs how to build a solid referral network for their business, where to find those partners and how to generate six and even seven figures through cultivating authentic relationships.
Brady, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show. And thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor.
I'm super excited because my bio obviously needs a slight update in that a big part of our audience also includes authors. To me, this was such a perfect natural progression to having had a wonderful opportunity to speak with you on the phone recently. I'm super happy to be here.
Authentic relationships and cultivating those, that sounds really exciting. And JVs joint ventures, collaborations, affiliates, these are words that get bandied around a lot and I think people assume that they know what they mean, but they don't. Give us the 101 version of what these different words actually mean and how they can be meaningful to us as authors, consultants, coaches, et cetera.
If you've ever looked at the marketing space or heard the term JV or joint venture or affiliates, most people probably don't know that those are used interchangeably in the internet marketing space. But when it comes to affiliates, for example, an affiliate deal or an affiliate is someone that gets paid to promote another product essentially. Promotion can look like a number of different things. It can be they run paid ads to somebody else's product. It could be they promote somebody else's webinar. It could be a number of different platforms, even going as far as putting ads and things like that and fliers and such. That will be an affiliate deal. And it's typically a very one-way thing where it's like, "I pay you to promote my product."
Where it gets kind of muddied is for whatever reason in the internet marketing space, they seem to use the term JV, or joint venture. And it's used interchangeably. The traditional form or sense of the word, a joint venture is when two people are getting into a mutual business together or a mutual business effort. It's traditionally from real estate or a company merger, things like that. But in the internet marketing space, it usually just denotes when two people are agreeing to do some form of promotions together, so I promote you, you promote me or some concoction or recipe of different types of things that they put together.
That's how it's traditionally used, and how it's used in the modern sense is JV, affiliates, joint venture, they're all kind of used interchangeably when it comes to coaches, consultants, authors. That's just the terminology we use.
I'm starting to get involved in this space now, as you rightly know, and that's how we met. I think before it used to be an elite group who used to be able to do these joint ventures with each other and nobody else was allowed in. But now that space is different. Talk to us a little more about that.
That's a good question. In the past, I think when people started marketing online, the early adopters very quickly learned that they could support each other and make a lot more revenue when you're plugging holes in your marketing calendar. For example, they might promote themselves once a month or twice a month, but in the other parts of the month still had space. And so those early adopters quickly learned that, "Well, I can find other people who are good at marketing and they can fill that platform or that spot so that I can continue to earn revenue even when I'm not promoting something."
And one of the benefits of that, for those of your audience are familiar with this particular type of product, is when you market somebody else's product as an affiliate, you don't have to do the delivery. Basically, you're sending out a promotion, you're putting it in front of somebody else and they handle the payments, they handle the delivery, they handle all the refunds if there is that. All of those things are hands-off, so it simplifies that part of the process.
When we come back to what happens in the past decade or so is people started looking at joint ventures are working really well for these bigger players. But at the end of the day, there's a limited pool of folks that are at that level. And they started trickling down and teaching these strategies and telling their students, their friends about these different pieces and encouraging them to play at the same time.
And so what's happened is there's popped up all these different groups that can COLLABORATE and look for ways by which they can support each other, and it's allowed us to reach a lot more people than ever before. This year, in particular, has seen an explosion. With everything that's going on in the world, being online right now more than any other time. When you're marketing a service-based product or information-based products, like a book, now is more critical than ever.
All these different strategies have come out where now everybody can participate. In the past, the first big one was telesummits for example or one of the bigger ones. And some people will know what I'm talking about. Other people are like, "What's a telesummit? I know what Zoom is, or I know what a virtual summit is, but what's a telesummit?" Well, years ago they used to get on the phone, and we would call into these big conference lines and people would do essentially what is a webinar now on a phone call.
This whole world has evolved to where now the marketing channels and the different marketing strategies have expanded and we've learned more about what people are actually looking for, how they want to consume our information, whether it's in a book format, whether it's in a virtual format or whether it's a podcast. And this has allowed us to be able to share each other more than in any other time in history.
And that's so exciting. And the fact that all those have got ... As you know, many of my listeners are non-fiction authors and they have a message and they need to spread that message to ... I call them niche markets and penetrate those niche markets. Using collaboration, using JV, joint venture partners is a way for them to do that. But the question is how do they even get started in this?
The biggest thing I think to get started is to start having conversations with people that you want to work with or have the particular audience that you're looking for. One of the big examples I would say is for us, our big audience is coaches, consultants, authors, and speakers. I like to look for people that have a similar audience, right? Susan, you're one of those people. You have your audience. You have a group of authors, right? They're knowledge-based or wisdom-based. They have their expertise. I will look for people like that because that's what I can help the most.
If somebody's just starting, they want to start looking for people that share a similar audience. And a lot of times, folks will drop into this idea of competition. I believe that competition is dead and if you build a business strictly to compete that you're designing it to just basically fail. When you have an information product or you're selling knowledge, wisdom, when you have a product like that, competition is dead. It doesn't matter because no matter what you do, there's always a group of people that won't want to buy from you, but that still need that particular product.
When you find somebody with a similar market, a similar audience, you can say, "Hey, look, these people aren't buying from me, but they have wisdom and knowledge to get into the world. Will you help them?" And then you can promote them to another group that's doing the same thing. And it can be the exact same product. One of the companies I represented for many years was of course creation company. And during that time, I think we promoted something like seven or eight other course creation companies and most of them multiple times a year, because while the message that my client was putting out was landing for the people that were buying, there was a ton of people that loved the content, but didn't resonate with him, right, or loved him, but didn't necessarily want the content, and trying to find where these things fit together. That's probably the number one thing is start to find people with your most similar audience and start to have conversations about how you can support each other.
And I think that's a very important message is the fact that ... Don't worry about the competition. I know that authors get very upset and it's like, "Oh, I don't want to give stuff away for free because then people have it and then they're not going to buy." I'm like, "No, no, just give the information away," because it's not about that. You can get oodles of information. You can drown in information on the internet, but it's more the relationship that you build with someone that is going to make that special. And you talked about yes, cultivating, authentic relationships. I love that phrase. Yeah.
Mistakes. This is just wide open, this arena, for mistakes. Let's talk about some of the ones, the common ones that we could easily fall into.
You said that. It's funny. It is wide open, because this area of joint ventures is basically the last frontier of internet marketing. It's like the wild west of internet marketing. And so people often run fast and loose. Probably the biggest mistakes people get are over-committing to things. They get excited, they learn about what joint ventures are and then they can COLLABORATE. They basically start taking on everything they can and they way over-commit what they can do.
It's like any other thing. As a business owner ... An author is no different. It's just a different representation, right? ... is they need to be able to take their knowledge and market it. Well, if they're promoting other people instead of themselves, then they're doing themselves a disservice. That's probably the first big mistake people make is promoting too many other people and not promoting themselves enough because while it's great to ... You can earn affiliate revenue and things like that by promoting others, I've had a number of conversations with some of the larger players and really where the affiliate income exceeds their own income doesn't really happen until an email list essentially crosses a million. You have to have a very large email list before your affiliate income exceeds your own internal revenue. And that makes way more sense. That's the first big mistake people make.
I would say the second one is follow-up. I would say that's probably actually the biggest mistake that people make, because no matter where they get in and no matter what level they're at, because I've seen people that are very good at what they do and have been doing joint ventures for years, but are unable to do effective follow-up. And when you have poor follow-up with joint ventures, then nothing really happens and it can ruin the relationship. It is really bad for the email list and the audience is listening to the content. It can be quite damaging.
And the biggest thing to look for in that particular space and when you're looking at structuring and following through on a joint venture deal is just, you really have to pay attention to the details and you have to record everything, put it all in writing so it's very clear and you have to follow up on every little detail. When you're booking it, you book the email and say, "I'm going to do the email." Email one goes out Monday at 6:00 AM and then email two goes out on Tuesday at 6:00 AM. Maybe it's a five-email sequence or something, right?
Whenever the emails go out ... Let's say they go out Monday morning at 6:00 AM ... that should be in your marketing calendar. You should have a calendar tracking when people are supposed to be emailing for you. And then that way at 9:00 AM when you start your day, if you start your day at 9:00 AM ... some people do, some people don't ... if you start your day at 9:00 AM, the first thing you do is check the registrations or check the link traffic. How many people went to that link? What's happening there? Is there any traffic at all?
And if there's not, you write an email immediately and say, "Hey, I just noticed that we're planning on scheduling this promotion and the email was supposed to go out at 6:00 AM this morning and I haven't seen any traffic yet. Is everything all right?" Just checking in. You're not picking on people because they do something or they miss something because at the end of the day, as the JV partner, we're not everybody's biggest priority in the world. There are people getting sick. There are kids, there are dogs. There are so many reasons for people not to follow through. If you can help people follow up and you follow up, that will make you one of the most effective joint venture partners and people will be hunting you down.
You said one of the biggest mistakes was over-committing. And I can see that because I feel that I've gotten myself occasionally into that situation where I say, "Yes, I'll do it. Yes, I'll do it," and then I don't. And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, that was too much. Why did I commit to that?" I feel bad that I offered to do this just being nice and not really thinking this through enough. Is there a level of how many of these you should be doing, especially in the beginning, so that you don't get into that situation where you over-commit?
I think the first thing you need to do is decide on your own personal promotional schedule. If you want to be promoting once a month or twice a month, whatever it ends up being within the timeframe that you do, right? We all need to choose the particular promotional schedule we need and then also make sure we have break time because as creatives, as entrepreneurs, we also need our downtime. And I think that's neglected a lot. And the more downtime where we can recharge, the more effective we can be when we do those webinars.
For example, we tend to run on a 17-week calendar where we promote really hard for five weeks, then we do some training, teaching, delivery, and then we do an event and then we have the following up of the event and the cleanup and then we take some vacation and we start again. We promote really heavily during those five weeks, or we don't promote anybody else because all we're doing is webinars, promoting an event, training, something. We're doing something, podcasts, where we're doing a lot of outreach to different audiences.
But then for the rest of the time, I'm happy to promote people. And some people's schedule might be they want to promote themselves the first week of the month or the last week of the month and then for three weeks they can promote and do whatever they want. And I would say that most likely, and everybody's audience is going to be slightly different because some people will get known for, "Well, they promote summits," and so their audience will tend to respond to summits to a certain extent. And you can actually start to see it. As you add too many things, people start to unsubscribe or they stop just opening your emails at all. And so it becomes important to watch how your audience responds when you send emails.
I would say it's a spectrum. I mean, I like doing no more than about three summits a year. I like doing maybe no more than two or three gift giveaways for participating in any giveaway or a bundle package, something like that. And then I, of course, like to promote us quite a lot. That leaves me room for about 16 to 20 weeks a year to promote other people's products, not counting those giveaways and summits and things like that. And that's the particular format that I like.
But I know plenty of people starting out where they get into a little group of four and first week of the month, everybody promotes the one person and the second week of the month, everybody promotes, the second person, and third week, everybody promotes the third person and they rotate every month. I don't recommend that. Very quickly, you'll burn through everybody's audience, but when you're first starting out, it can be a helpful tool if you form a pod and you do something like that, so you all agree that this is what's going to happen for this period of time.
And I've seen authors do that, where they'll choose somebody products, and they'll do some sort of book launch, and they all will get behind each other and they'll promote this person's book launch on the week one, and then this person's book launch on week two and so on and so forth. The same strategy can apply. And as you watch how they're responding as your audience is responding to stuff, you can start to figure out what it is they like, because you might promote a giveaway and nobody likes that. They don't respond. You cut out giveaways or you limit it to once a year. You might find that they love summits and that you don't get any unsubscribes, and so you add another summit, so instead of doing three, you do one a quarter and then nobody unsubscribed, so you add a fifth one.
There's a lot of testing involved to see what people like and what they don't. The biggest thing is just, I particularly like running my own promotions. I like to be the summit host. I like to be the giveaway host. I like to be the webinar host. I like to be that person because then I know that I can control the situation much more effectively and I know that I'm going to capture all the leads from the promotion.
I mean, and that one's more meta probably. That's definitely not 101. That's, I don't know, whatever, a further level here of marketing, but if you're just starting out and you've never done a joint venture and you're looking to support or you're looking for support, finding a small group of people and even could be eight people, week one, everybody promotes one person, week two, and all the way up to eight, and that way you can just rotate. Every two months, you have a whole other audience, right? And you do that a few times and you can dramatically increase your audience very, very quickly and your reach for your materials.
I like that. I like it. Sounds so simple. And everybody knows other people, and if you can work together, that's great. What about a specific strategy that you might use for a book? Because authors are always looking for different ways in which they can promote their book. How would this whole strategy fit in with that?
I like doing bonuses. For me, I would want to do something where I include ... They have to buy the book, for example, to get a bonus. Let's say for example, we have an event called COLLABRATE, and normally COLLABRATE runs for ... I'm going to give you an example. This is a made-up example. We haven't done this, but this is an example I would consider doing. COLLABORATE has a $47 ticket price. Well, if I wanted to gather a group and get them a bonus, I might gather them up and say, "Look, if you buy the book and send in the receipt, we'll give you the event for a dollar," something to that effect where they can attend the events and get some information, but they also get the benefit of gathering the book.
Now, from a partnership side, at first glance, for those of you that are caching the numbers or some of the data from before, that might not look like a super compelling promotion, but here's what happens is at the event, you build in your affiliate side for your partner support into the event itself. For example, COLLABORATE has a $47 ticket. Normally we give 100% of it away to the person who refers other people to the event. That way we're helping people by having us shared with their audience, right?
For example, if you refer somebody, Susan, and somebody comes, I pay them $47 and it's just because I appreciate that connection and it gets people in front of new materials, new awarenesses, new wisdom. That becomes one of the valuable things. And as an author, when you're marketing a book, if you have an event you can plug it into, like maybe you can get it included as a bonus at somebody else's event, like they can get a discount, you could even waive that. Somebody could contact me and say, "Hey Brady, I want to send people to COLLABORATE and I want them to buy my book and do that. Can I get them a dollar ticket?" Well, since I'm sending you the $47 ticket upfront anyway, when they buy a ticket, I don't mind discounting them. That's fine because it gets you what you're looking for, right?
If I break that down again, just to outline it, if I need a book promoted, I can include a $1 ticket to COLLABORATE, for example, as part of the bonus. They have to buy my book and then they get a $1 ticket. Otherwise, it's $47 and then they have to still buy the book, right? I can do that. And then when they come to the event, that's how they get rewarded for coming to the event. It becomes a really easy one shop promo where you can leverage other people's events, as long as you have the connection and the conversation with beforehand that happens to be running an event. This happens to be one strategy. Oh my gosh. There are so many different ways that you could promote books, as you're well aware.
Absolutely. But this is a different way and something that hopefully listeners, your ears are perking up here and you may need to listen to this episode a few times to just really get your head around everything that Brady is sharing here, because it's incredible information. And I'm just getting involved right at the beginning level of understanding all this. Brady's being very helpful.
Brady, how can our listeners find out more about you and the different events you run? Take it away. Tell us how they can contact you.
The easiest place to find me is on LinkedIn at Brady Patterson. And you'll see me. I'm wearing black glasses. I got my curly hair. That's probably the simplest way to find me. Our event and how you find me as far as outside of that offline is you can check us out at TheJVInsiderCircle.com. Those are probably the two easiest ways to track me down. If you're interested in some of the wackier other stuff I do, like for my bio ... I haven't done the rodeo thing for a while, but the outdoorsman survival stuff, you can always check out my Instagram, which is just Brady Patterson. Those are probably the best ways to get ahold of me.
And then if they really want to check out what this is all about and kind of dip their feet into what it is to actually look at doing a joint venture and doing collaborations, we actually run an event called COLLABORATE and we bring 300 people, 250, 300 people, somewhere in that range, together. They get to spend three days ... We joke about it, but there's a truth to it. It's kind of like speed dating for joint ventures. It's like we bring people together so that they can find out very quickly who they want to work with.
And we specifically do it this way in a rapid fashion, because the more people you can talk to about this, the clearer you can get so much more effectively. By the time you're going through this, when you come out of that, you know the type of joint venture partner that you want. You know how to talk about joint ventures, about your particular joint venture offer, and what you're doing if you're looking to promote a book or something like that. You can be very, very clear on all those pieces and that makes you far more prepared. I mean, we've had people make 5, 10, 15, 20 new joint venture partners from a single event. It's one of the most effective ways to start really getting into this joint venture world.
I just attended a COLLABORATE event. And obviously as we know, that's how you and I met. And I was blown away at the connections, and you're right, this sort of speed dating for joint ventures and partnerships. And I met some amazing people and it's almost like I wanted to do something with all of them, but I knew that I couldn't or wouldn't because their audience isn't necessarily my audience and vice versa, but there were people, and I've already spoken with a few as a result of this, we're looking to get together and do something together. In fact, I think I've got my first COLLABORATE event with somebody in December, in early December. It's exciting, very, very exciting. I highly recommend, listeners, that you follow through and we're going to put a link in the show notes for ... Is that another COLLABORATE event that's going on? What are we linking them to, Brady?
Yeah. We actually run several COLLABORATEs a year and I want us to make sure this didn't die after a single listen. We run multiple promotions a year. This link will be active for 2021, for sure, if not beyond. And this will register them for the COLLABORATE, for the next one coming up. There's one in January. There's one in March. There's another one in May, July, so on and so forth. And hopefully we really would love to have a live event again next year, in person. We love seeing people in person. I am missing the physical contact of people. The link in the show notes take you right to the next event's ticket.
Excellent. Yes. And the event that I went to was a virtual event, but it was still dynamic. We were broken up into the breakout rooms and it was just like opening a gift because you just didn't know who was going to be in the room there and what exciting adventure you'd be on. I highly recommend it. Brady, if you could leave our listeners with a golden nugget, what would that be?
If you're going to do joint ventures, the biggest thing you need to do is take your time and make sure that you follow through and across all the Is and dot all the Ts. And so, the golden nugget is around structuring your conversation. And I train people this all the time. It takes an hour phone call really to set up a joint venture the first time. For your first ever call, take an hour. Take your time, because it really does take about 20 minutes to explain what you're doing to somebody. And then it does take about another 20 minutes for you to fully understand what it is that they're saying and what they're doing. And that leaves you about 20 minutes to hunt for intersections.
The reason we leave this time is I've had calls that have stretched for ... We're at 56 minutes into the call and I can't find anything yet, 57 minutes. And I'm like, "Oh, I feel there's something here." And the person mentions something offhand that doesn't even have anything to do with the particular thing that we're looking for and it triggers something and all of a sudden the door opens. And we may have to have a second call to hash out the details, but we're able to, in that first call, find the connection between us and be able to deepen and build a real relationship, an authentic relationship. And that way, anything after happens much more easily, much more quickly. And the other calls don't even have be calls. Followups can be through email and things like that. But that first call, you really want to get to know the person that you're talking to. And that's what I would recommend as a golden nugget is really just take your time.
Yes, and having experienced that just recently where I had that conversation and I had exactly the same reaction, it's like, "I'm not sure that there's anything," and then all of a sudden, this lady was giving me contacts and we were sharing information. And I was like, "Okay, that's what it's about." Yeah. You just never know.
Brady, great wisdom. Listeners, as I said, you're going to have to listen to this episode a few times to really get your head around everything, but take the plunge. It's worth it. And it can be very lucrative too, judging what Brady's able to do and what he's been able to help people with, generate six and even seven figures. That's quite something. Any event, thank you, and thank you all for taking time out of your precious day to listen to this interview and I sincerely hope that it sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Here's wishing you much book marketing success.