Do you want to know how to overcome feelings of being an imposter? Listen as marketing strategist, Vince Warnock shares powerful tips and techniques on how to harness feelings of being a phony or a fraud, and you don't belong where you are
Do you want to know how to overcome feelings of being an imposter syndrome?
Listen as marketing strategist, Vince Warnock shares powerful tips and techniques on how to harness feelings of being a phony or a fraud, and you don't belong where you are - you only got there through dumb luck.
In this week's powerful episode "How to Best Overcome Any Feelings of Being an Imposter" you will discover:
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Susan Friedmann: Welcome to Book Marketing Mentors, the weekly podcast where you learn proven strategies, tools, ideas, and tips from the masters every weekend we introduce you to a marketing master who will share their expertise to help you market and sell more books. Today, my special guest is Vince Warnock, an award-winning business and marketing strategist, coach, author, and host of "Chasing the Insights" podcast. Previously, the CMO at Cigna, founder of multiple companies, and an ex-radio announcer with over 20 years in marketing. Vince has been recognized by his peers with numerous awards, including being named a Fearless 50, a program to recognize the top 50 marketers in the world who drive bold, fearless marketing and digital transformation. Whoa, Vince, what an absolute pleasure it is to welcome you to the show. Thank you for being this week's guest expert and mentor. I really screwed that up.
Vince Warnock: I feel like this is going to be one of the most fun episodes ever.
Susan Friedmann: You had me on your show a few weeks ago, and I know we just hit it off, we could have gone on for ages. I have a feeling that this could happen here too, just as well. We've got a little bit of a time slot here where we're working, and so got to ask you about this Fearless 50, and I've never heard of that before. Tell us more about that program.
Vince Warnock: That was a huge surprise for me. So, I was actually speaking at a conference in Sydney, this was back in 2018, I think it was. And I get this phone call just before I go up on stage. I get this phone call from Adobe and it's one of their offshoots marketers saying, "Hey, we want you to speak at this conference". I said, "Yeah, sure, sure. I love speaking at conferences. Send me the details". So I go up and I do my presentation, it goes off well, I go back to my seat. I'm sitting there,and I get the email from them and I'm like, "Oh, those silly sausages, they've sent me the wrong link". So I called them up after the conference and said, "Look, you sent me the wrong link. You sent me one in San Francisco, and I'm based in New Zealand".
And they were like, "Yeah, no, we want you to go there. We're going to fly you. You know, we'll put your business class, we'll put you in a five-star hotel. We'll pay for everything, but we need you to come and speak at this conference". And I was like, "Wow, okay". I'm thinking, all right, that's a bit random. But so I said to them, no, I said, "I'll speak at the conference definitely, but I'll pay my own way because we used Adobe products". I didn't want anyone to think there was a conflict of interest there at all. Because when you're chief marketing officer, everyone looks at your every move like that, funny enough. So I was like, "All right, I'll pay my own way". And they were like, "Great, but you have to be here". And I said, "I'll be there. I'll be there". Fortunately, Cigna actually found out about what I was doing, and just went, "No, no, we'll pay for you".
And I'm like, "Yes, back to business class". So headed off to San Francisco, I got there, there were 7,000 people at the conference. It was unbelievably cool. But that's when they revealed that the reason they had asked certain presenters to be there, as they had launched this Fearless 50 program. And it was Adobe's way of recognizing the top 50 marketers in the world. Being a Kiwi who suffers from imposter syndrome, I'm sitting on the front row, hearing them talk about this top 50 marketers, and the fact that only chosen the top 25 and my name's in the mix and I'm going, "Nah, they really have me mixed up with someone else". And then it got even weirder because the guy who was launching it, he was up on stage and he goes, "And I really want to highlight three that I think are really pushing the boundaries and marketing and really trying to challenge our industry as a whole."
And he goes, "And the first of those is all the way from New Zealand." And I'm sitting there, and my brain just didn't cope. I'm looking up at the screen going, "Far out, there's this giant photo up there of another guy that looks almost exactly like me, how random is that." And then the name goes up there and I go, "Wait, he's got the same name as me!" And my brain is just going, "Man, I can't cope with this". It was a huge honor, and amazing honor to be there amongst the people that I look up to in the industry. Some of the most incredibly talented marketers were on that list and were there. And I got to go and hang out with them all, which was just so buzzy. I came back from that trip, almost thinking it was a dream, it was so surreal. I just couldn't process what had happened. But huge honor, even though imposter syndrome yelled at me and screamed at me, it was just such an incredible honor.
Susan Friedmann: You have mentioned that twice, imposter syndrome. I am going to go down that route because I know it's something that creeps up on me every once in a while, more than I would like sometimes. And I know many of our listeners face that too. So, talk to us about that in terms of, yes, you feel it, but it's not stopping, so talk to us about it.
Vince Warnock: No, definitely not. Yeah well, first of all, quick, if anyone hasn't heard of imposter syndrome, it's basically that voice that's telling you, you're not worthy, that you don't belong there. And the interesting thing that you said, this isn't about how it affects you from time to time and will affect this audience. That doesn't surprise me at all, because the stats are that around 72% of humans, essentially, so everybody at some point, deal with imposter syndrome. That sense that you are not worthy, it's basically a fear of judgment, fear of that people are going to look at you and go, "You have no idea what you're doing, and I'm calling you on it". And you'll freak out about this, but that 72%, that's all of the humans. When you boil that down into subsections, including authors and entrepreneurs, and lump those two together, it's almost a hundred percent. And there's a very specific reason for that.
The reason is, you are an imposter because you're doing something that you've never done before. You're basically cutting a new path. You're creating something new, which means you haven't done this, which means you are making it up as you go along. And that's a good thing. This was something I had to come to terms with. I won't go into my background and details and things, but I grew up in a not very nice environment where you didn't have things like hope. You didn't have things like a sense that you could accomplish something with your life. I had to learn that through my interactions with other people, and with people that spoke into my life along the way. But I started to realize that I had this fear of putting my head above everybody else. I had this fear, that if I try and give myself acknowledgment because I'm an incredibly talented person, just like most of the people listening to this are, I'm an incredibly talented person.
But, to recognize that in myself or to have that recognized by somebody else, kind of created this fear in me because, well, who do I think I am? In fact, when I published my first book, Susan, I still remember it, it should have been one of the greatest days of my life. I'm like, I wanted to be a published author for a long time, I bled and wept over that book. I put so much heart and soul and effort into it. And I knew it was a good book because it was exactly the framework that I had used over all my different years in business and entrepreneurship to succeed. I had proven that this works, so I could back that up. And I remember somebody said to me, "Oh, don't bother doing a book launch. Nobody goes to book launches anymore.", And I'm going, "Ha, I'm a marketer, you fool. This is my jam. I'm going to do this".
So I put together, back when we could meet face to face, put together a book launch and we had a hundred-odd people there. It was just an amazing event, an incredible atmosphere. I had some of my peers from even Australia fly over and come and see me. I had people there, family, friends, people who had been on the journey. It was just an incredibly encouraging environment. But, I knew I was going to struggle in there because I knew that people are going to want a signed copy of the book. And for me, my brain couldn't rationalize that at first, because I'm going, "I'm not a celebrity, like seriously, I'm a barely average karaoke singer. Why would anyone want my autograph"? So I thought, "Right, I'm going to have to work this out because if I go to a book launch, that is exactly what I want. I want a signed copy of a book because it's my way of supporting the author, of showing them that this is something really special, but also that's an awesome memento of the event".
So I was like, "Okay if that's what I want when I go to book launch, I can rationalize it in my brain. So, that's okay. I can do this. I've got this". But the one thing I didn't count on, was the response every time I gave the book to them. So, people would come up and they want a signed copy. I would sign the copy, hand them the book. And then they would all say something along the lines of, "Thanks Vince, I can't wait to read it". And the moment they said that I would feel this knot in my stomach and that knot got tighter and tighter and tighter through the night. I left that event, which should have been, like I said, one of the most amazing feelings, I got home and those internal dialogues just started tearing me apart.
And imposter syndrome just got, it didn't even whisper anymore, it just got as claws in my head and shouted at me. And I remember all of these internal monologues going, "Who do you think you are? What makes you think you have a right to write a book? People are going to read this and think you're an amateur, man. What makes you think you have anything special to say?" And, I then sabotage myself. So the next morning I decided that's it, I'm not even going to talk about my book. In fact, for the most part, it didn't affect me, but there was one thing I did, which I do regret. I had Forbes CIO magazine, and Diginomica all want to do like big articles on the book and the impact seminar, the industry, et cetera. And I turned all three down because I said to them, "Well, I'm chief marketing officer, so no, I'm far too busy.", which I was busy, but definitely could have made time for that.
But it was this fear that people would find me out, and basically judge me on that. That's when I had to really look into what imposter syndrome is. For years, I'd heard people say, "You have to fight it. You have to battle it. You have to beat it. You have to kind of crush it. That's what your goal is, to defeat this thing." Until I started to understand what imposter syndrome actually is, imposter syndrome, believe it or not, and this is going to freak people out, but it's not a bad thing at all. It's what you do with that, that's the bad thing. Because of imposter syndrome, those voices that talk to you, those whispers that tell you you're not good enough. All that is, is your brain trying to protect you because you are outside of your comfort zone. You are outside of this kind of safe environment, this little comfort zone box that we hide in. You're outside of this.
Your brain is going, "Whoa, whoa, that's scary. I want you back here where it's safe. There is potential risk there because you could be judged". So it knows one of the highest motivators to get you back into the comfort zone, is to make you feel like you're afraid. That's your brain's coping mechanism to say, "You're outside of your comfort zone". But the interesting thing is as entrepreneurs, as authors, as anybody who's putting themselves out there, that is exactly where you should be, right? Outside of your comfort zone is where breakthrough happens, is where growth happens, it's where success and prosperity happen as well. It does not happen in your comfort zone. When you understand that there's a different way to kind of treat imposter syndrome because it can be yelling at you saying, "Hey, who do you think you are? What makes you think you have anything to say on this? What makes you think you are worthy?"
We can now recognize that and go, "Hey, brain. Thank you, I appreciate you trying to look out for me. I really do. I appreciate you trying to keep me safe, but guess what? I've got this, right? I am right where I need to be now." Think of it as your alarm clock. It's just a way of alerting you to the fact that you are exactly where you need to be. That's what the process I've gone through to help, to understand, and to deal with imposter syrups. So, now I'm actually teaching people, "Don't fight it. Don't run from it. Don't try and beat it. Actually, embrace it". There's a whole pile of positives to embracing imposter syndrome. When you actually can acknowledge it in your brain and go, "Okay, I see what you're doing brain. I understand what you're trying to achieve here, but I'm not buying into that. Instead, I'm going to thank you. And I'm going to use this as an indicator I'm right where I want to be."
That is really powerful in itself. But there's a couple of other flow-on effects, because when you constantly feel like you're not worthy, or you feel like the dumbest person in the room is the analogy I use, then that motivates you to try and learn more as well. It motivates you to not be in a situation where you're embarrassed. So, therefore, you find a lot of people with imposter syndrome, constantly try and learn and constantly try and improve. That is a really good thing. But then the other kind of side effect of this is that as entrepreneurs, most of us, basically all of us, except for the sociopaths, most of us have to struggle with this.
We have to deal with imposter syndrome. That means this is a level playing field. It means you have as much right to be there as everybody else, but also it helps you to understand the other people, it helps you to understand their fears, their insecurities, which by the way, are pretty much the same as yours. I'm going to change the script on it and say, it's really positive thing. Imposter syndrome is not bad. It's something you should embrace. But what you shouldn't embrace, is the self-sabotage that comes off the end of imposter syndrome. That's when we hear those voices and we go, "Oh no, now I can't do anything. Now I'm going to turn down those media interviews. Or now I'm not going to turn up for a live video", or something like that, that I need to do because I'm afraid. Feel the fear, and just do it anyway.
Susan Friedmann: Do it anyway. I love that. Yes, you and I should write a book about this because I feel exactly the same way. It's like make it an ally, like befriend this part of you, instead of trying to fight it all the time, which often is a losing battle. Just befriend it, make it yours. And just as you rightly said, "Yeah, I got this. Thanks for looking out for me". And the funny thing is that getting outside of your comfort zone, and it creates this feeling of being a fraud, being an impostor, but yet what you specialize in is pushing those boundaries. You're really taking this on big time.
Vince Warnock: And full disclosure for everyone as well, I teach on this, right? A lot of the entrepreneurs that I coach and deal with, they have dealt with this themselves, or they are dealing with this themselves. But even knowing all of this, and even being able to teach all this, I still have those days. I talk about them that they're not getting out of bed days, the days where you wake up and "Go, what the hell am I doing? Like seriously, I should become an adult. I should get a real job. Like who do I think I am?". But you have to remind yourself why you're doing what you're doing and remind yourself what you teach other people, as well. Because as teachers often, we are the worst students. So I still suffer from that personally, this is a constant battle. And I realize this is probably something I'm going to struggle with for most of my life. But also I don't mind that, because it's something that's going to help me motivate myself to help other people with it.
Susan Friedmann: I think that's the important part of this, is you use it as a motivator or something to empower you, rather than allow it to sabotage you. Which again, is easy to do, it's sort of the get out of quick jail card. It's like, "Okay If I turn everything down and I stay comfortable, nobody can judge me. Nobody can criticize me. I'm safe in my little cubby hole here, not doing anything". And making excuse after excuse for why you're not doing it.
Vince Warnock: The downside of that too, is yes, you are safer in that comfort zone and yes, nobody can judge you. But the reason that you can't judge you is that you're not doing anything, which means you can't succeed and success doesn't happen in their comfort zone at all. It happens outside of the comfort zone. You have two choices essentially, stay safe and stay comfortable, or succeed or possibly fail, but to try something different anyway. And the beauty of failure is, failure is just another step. Because I used to be afraid of making decisions. And my son is very much like this, he's similar to me in some ways, but he's a high introvert and I'm a high extrovert, it's a weird mix. But I remember, he hated making decisions, because he would be fearful of what if I've made the wrong decision.
And I had to teach him well, who cares? But what if it's the wrong decision? I said, "Simple, just make a different decision". We have this weird thing, we have this weird attachment to our own decisions where we go, "Okay, if I'm going to do something and it fails, then that's it for me". Not realizing if I do this and it doesn't work or it fails then, "Oh, okay. Well just do something else". So if I make that decision, it doesn't work, okay, that's fine. I learned from that, let's try something different. And we just have this weird attachment to those decisions, but the reality is you can make any decisions you want. I love it.
Susan Friedmann: I mean failure is such a learning tool, rather than being such a negative. I'm sorry that we've created the sort of negative emotional reaction to the word failure because it means sort of, I don't know, the end. It's like, oh.
Vince Warnock: This was actually a core part of my first book, "Chasing the Insights." Because one of the things I realized when you're doing experimentation, so the whole book is around experimentation, digital marketing, but one of the things I realized was it's okay to have a framework to do this. It's okay to have all these seven things, but something goes through your head when you run an experiment and it doesn't work. And I saw this time and time again with my teams, or the people I was training, I would see them do an experiment and it doesn't work. And then they go, "oh no.", and they're deflated. And I'm like, "Why are you deflated"? I had to change the narrative around it. I had to make them realize the experimentation is not success and failure. It's about proving or disproving your hypothesis. It's about going in with a position going, I think this may work. Let's try it and align to prove or disprove that. But in either way, both of those two states proving or disproving, there is a huge amount of insights in there.
We came up with the concept, we don't chase the wins, we chase the insights, which is where the name of the book came from. But the whole concept there is, it's actually about looking for the deep learnings within each of these different experiments you run, when something doesn't go your way, you now know so much more about your potential market, about your audience, about what you're trying to do. You almost create a lower boundary where you go, "Okay, I don't need to go that low anymore. I can go over here and try this". And it's just like this fertile soil where you're just trying all these different experiments to see what grows or too close to the fence. Let's get back in here, that one's too dry, let's move it over here. But it's just changing that narrative around success and failure, to go it's either proving or disproving, but either way, you win.
Susan Friedmann: Which is important, and to keep that in focus. And I know you've been involved in sales for many years, but this idea of, "Oh well, that didn't work. Therefore, we have to do something else". Well, it didn't work in that situation, but it might work in another situation, which is part of that proving or disproving. But yes, it's all an experiment. Life is an experiment. I mean, we're living an experiment
Vince Warnock: So enjoy it, play around with it.
Susan Friedmann: We've just got a limited time to experiment, and sometimes, and help me with this. But the idea even of success could be something that stops you. "Oh, I've achieved that.", and there's this sense of complacency, and there's nothing worse than complacency.
Vince Warnock: This is where imposter syndrome is kind of your friend, by the way, again because you're never going to feel like you made it, anyway. And I still remember the first day of a time I encountered the concept of imposter syndrome. And I actually think back then, I don't even think we had that name for it, but I was a lot younger. I won't tell you how old I am, but I was a lot younger. And I knew from a very young age that I wanted to break out of what I grew up with, which was this poverty mentality, abuse mentality, and things. I wanted to break out of that, and I wanted to do something with my life. The only way I saw to do that, I used to watch Gremlins and seeing the dad was an inventor on there, or I'd see other ones where they were entrepreneurs.
And I'm like, "I want to run something to create something to birth something". I was a young kind of, I didn't even know what school was it, was going to say, businessman. I used to work in a lab, basically designing incubators. And I won a ticket to this business breakfast. And I was so excited. I was like, "Oh my goodness.", funnily enough, they hit up Adobe for Oceania talking about his roadmap to success and all these kind of things. I was just like, "I can't believe I won this ticket". Now, I was poor, I had just come out of studenthood. That was my first job. I didn't have any money. All my money back then was spent on comic books and alcohol, because that's what we did when we were younger. So I was like, "Right, I've got no money. I don't have enough money for food. And I'm going to an event with free food and with an inspiring speaker, this is my jam. This is going to be exciting".
So I turned up to them, but I also realized I didn't own a suit. And I knew that this was a business-based breakfast, so the people will be wearing suits. So I went to like a Goodwill shop. I went down there, I found the only suit I could afford, it was about $10. It was this terrible, shiny, gray, ill-fitting, honestly, the sleeves went down to almost to my fingertips, double-breasted suit. It was disgusting. It was so bad, but that was all I could afford. So I put this thing on, I turned up at this event and I wanted to run because I looked around, I sat at this table and I looked around at everybody else there, and in my mind, they had everything sorted. These people there were immaculately dressed. In my mind, it was all Armani suits and you know, success and dollar bills everywhere, kind of thing. So I'm going, "I don't belong here. I am completely out of my comfort zone". The speaker spoke and he was incredible. I ate all the food and all the coffee, it was amazing.
But he came over to each of the tables afterwards, he asked us if we had any further questions, I remember hearing about the next table, and my brain was like, "Okay, listen up. You've got one shot to ask him something intelligent, one-shot. Don't stuff this up, don't screw it up". And I'm going, "Okay brain, it's all good. I've got this, I've got this". He came over to the table, without even thinking, as soon as he said, if you've got any questions, I asked what I thought was the dumbest question ever.
I just said, "At what point did you know you'd made it?" The entire table, you can almost hear the snicker. I looked around and everyone's rolling their eyes. And I wanted to run. I wanted to either hide under the desk in fetal position or just run away for the road. I seriously was really close to crying. I was like, "I cannot believe I've embarrassed myself this much. I don't belong here". But then the speaker totally floored me. He turned around, and he said, "Actually, that's a really good question". And you could almost hear the gasps around the table. Like, "Wait, what?" And he goes, "I'm going to let you in on my secret". And I was like, "Oh my goodness". And he goes, "I'm going to let you in on my daily routine". Now, when you hear this from somebody you look up to, I'm like, "I'm writing down every word out of his mouth. I am taking down every step he talks about here".
And he said, "Look, I get up deliberately early every morning". So I'm like, "Deliberate, oh, write that down, early. Yep, That's a key point as well." He goes, "I go into the bathroom", I'm like, "Bathroom, bold choice. You're not going to the kitchen. Cool. Write that down." He goes, "I fill up the sink with cold water", and I'm going, "Hmm. Should I ask him what temperature the water, no, no, no, just write cold water". And then he goes, "And then I splash water on my face. I look in the mirror and I say, ha, today's the day they find out you're a fraud." And I went, "What?" And he goes, "I've never felt like I've made it, Vince. I've never felt like I fit in". And he goes, and, and he did the most amazing thing, he indicated around the whole table, "And most of us feel that way".
And I looked at these other people that I felt inferior to around the table, and they were all nodding. That to me was the epiphany of going we're never going to feel like we've made it. That is a good driving factor to keep pressing in and just try to be better versions of ourselves. But the other downside is the other thing that I've noticed as well with coaching people, Susan, is a lot of people have this weird perception of success and perfection. This picture that they create of perfection and of success, is often based on what we perceive other people have achieved, or what we perceive other people are doing. But the reality is, that's our interpretation of it. And I can guarantee you because this has happened to me over and over again, every time you meet those people that you look up to.
And I had this in San Francisco where the Fearless 50 awards, where I got to meet the people that were my heroes in the industry. And we went out to dinner and the more we talked, the more that we drank, the more whiskey we consumed, and they all started to open up. And I realized that all of these people were as much of a hot mess as I was. All of these people were as insecure as I was, were as worried, were as afraid, were as fearful as I was.
That made me realize that these pictures that I had in my head of what perfection and success looked like, don't exist. They are these false things that I projected on them. So instead of trying to create this perfect world, why don't we try something different and just try and be better every single day, like 1% better, 1% better, and 1% better, just create it like a compound interest approach. Just always looking for those opportunities to improve yourself and to improve the lives of those around you. I think that to me is where we're not going to be chasing success, we're going to be chasing the next tier of how we can impact people and impact their lives.
Susan Friedmann: And it's so beautiful. This conversation has gone nowhere where I thought it would go, but that's okay because it's even better. I had thought that we would talk about digital marketing and all the things that go on there. Never did I think we were talking about, to the extent of imposter syndrome, which is one of my favorite subjects, I must admit. So I love your insights on that. I hope that our audience does too, which I will be surprised if they didn't, because it's something that I feel, and I really love actually at the moment now, that we're living in a time of authenticity, that you can say, "Hey, I feel that way. I feel like an impostor". I mean, if the celebrity is the Oprah Winfrey's, and the Tom Hanks' of this world, the Lady Gagas, they've all admitted that they feel this way. That at some point, as you said, 72% of people believe that they have this, or they've had it at some point in their life.
I think this is a beautiful time that we're living in, that we can be authentic and people can see we're real people. And yes, there have been some successes, but you know, there have been things that haven't worked either, but we try, try again, and we don't want to give up at any point in time because hey, once you give up, that's the end. If you're not righting, you're rotting, as they say. Vince, tell our listeners how they can find out more about you, and the services you offer because I'm sure they are champing at the bit to find out.
Vince Warnock: The irony is, I do help people with digital marketing, even though we didn't cover it, I make it real easy for people to find me. You just need to go to chasingtheinsights.com. So that's the home of my Facebook, it's the home of my podcast, but it's also where you can connect with me on social media. So all the social media channels, I link there, but it's also where you can book a free strategy call with me. One of the things I love to do is I love to help people. And I'm very conscious of the fact that with marketing, it can be quite overwhelming for people, particularly authors as well, who go, "Right, I've got this passion and this desire to write this book, or I've published this book, but now what?" And we offer no beholden to whatever publishing company we're with, or some other marketing company. And we kind of leave it to them without realizing that actually marketing isn't that hard.
So I want to jump on calls with people to give them that sense of clarity. If anyone out there is struggling with any of that, do reach out to me, jump on a free call with me. I will deep dive into one of the challenges, or issues, or one of the things that are causing you overwhelm. And I will give you a sense of clarity at the end of it. I can guarantee you.
Susan Friedmann: Beautiful. Listeners, make sure that you take advantage of that. And I will put a link to your website in the show notes, Vince.
Vince Warnock: Awesome.
Susan Friedmann: And the question that I love guests to answer at the end is, if you were to leave our listeners with a golden nugget, what would that be?
Vince Warnock: Oh my goodness, there's so many I want to say here, Susan, this could go for an hour. I think the golden nugget is to realize that whether you're an author, whether you're an entrepreneur, you are actually something really special. You're genuinely creating something that doesn't exist. Whether it's a book that isn't in the world yet, or it's a company, or a product, or an offering that doesn't exist. And by the way, even if you're creating something, let's say you're writing a book on digital marketing. Yes, there are hundreds, probably thousands, hundreds of thousands of books out there on digital marketing. But that is the only one that's created by you. And that means that something special because you are the only you. You come with your own experiences, with your own learnings, with your own personality, with your own kind of struggles and scars that you've broken through.
All of these things make whatever you're creating incredibly unique. That is something that is not only worth recognizing, but it's also worth acknowledging, and it's worth celebrating. And it's something you should feel genuinely proud of. So even on those days where you do think, "Why am I doing this?", on those days where it feels hard, it feels like you're struggling. Just recognize that actually, you are one of the small percent of human beings that have the courage and the tenacity to birth something into this world, to create something into this world that doesn't exist. And that makes you incredibly, incredibly special.
So I just think, keep doing what you're doing. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. If you are struggling in any way, there are a pile of people in this world that want you to succeed. They are the Susan's of the world. They are the me's of the world. They are your coaches, your mentors, peers as well that you trust, reach out to them and say, "Help", reach out to them and say, "I'm struggling at the moment." And let them help you get perspective because the world needs what you're doing, and it needs more of you in it. That's just simply it.
Susan Friedmann: Oh, that is a special message. It just shows what a special person you are, Vince. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for doing this, for sharing your brilliance and your wisdom with our listeners. And listeners, thank you so much for taking time out of your precious day to listen to this interview. And I sincerely hope that it sparks some ideas you can use to sell more books. Here's wishing you much book and author marketing success.